For MONEY and discussion

[Kat]

PokerStars Game #32259354032: Tournament #191072669, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/08/30 23:32:56 ET
Table '191072669 2' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 2: MONEY1959 (3146 in chips)
Seat 3: bertman019 (1230 in chips)
Seat 4: hcal (3266 in chips)
Seat 5: xxlurchxx (5755 in chips)
Seat 7: A REAL DEAL (1951 in chips)
Seat 8: bendMEover (3902 in chips)
Seat 9: LorraineLove (1750 in chips)
bendMEover: posts small blind 75
LorraineLove: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LorraineLove [5c 3c]
MONEY1959: calls 150
bertman019: folds
hcal: folds
xxlurchxx: folds
A REAL DEAL: folds
bendMEover: folds
LorraineLove: checks
*** FLOP *** [9c 8s Qc]
LorraineLove: checks
MONEY1959: checks
*** TURN *** [9c 8s Qc] [9h]
LorraineLove: checks
MONEY1959: bets 150
LorraineLove: raises 300 to 450
MONEY1959: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [9c 8s Qc 9h] [4s]
LorraineLove: bets 1150 and is all-in
MONEY1959: folds
Uncalled bet (1150) returned to LorraineLove
LorraineLove collected 1275 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1275 | Rake 0
Board [9c 8s Qc 9h 4s]
Seat 2: MONEY1959 folded on the River
Seat 3: bertman019 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: hcal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: xxlurchxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: A REAL DEAL (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bendMEover (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: LorraineLove (big blind) collected (1275)

[Yoda]

Yoda thinks he missed his draw.

[Yoda]

PokerStars Game #32259354032: Tournament #191072669, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/08/30 23:32:56 ET
Table '191072669 2' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 2: MONEY1959 (3146 in chips)
Seat 3: bertman019 (1230 in chips)
Seat 4: hcal (3266 in chips)
Seat 5: xxlurchxx (5755 in chips)
Seat 7: A REAL DEAL (1951 in chips)
Seat 8: bendMEover (3902 in chips)
Seat 9: LorraineLove (1750 in chips)
bendMEover: posts small blind 75
LorraineLove: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LorraineLove [5c 3c]
MONEY1959: calls 150
bertman019: folds
hcal: folds
xxlurchxx: folds
A REAL DEAL: folds
bendMEover: folds
LorraineLove: checks
*** FLOP *** [9c 8s Qc]
LorraineLove: checks
MONEY1959: checks
*** TURN *** [9c 8s Qc] [9h]
LorraineLove: checks
MONEY1959: bets 150
LorraineLove: raises 300 to 450
MONEY1959: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [9c 8s Qc 9h] [4s]
LorraineLove: bets 1150 and is all-in
MONEY1959: folds
Uncalled bet (1150) returned to LorraineLove
LorraineLove collected 1275 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1275 | Rake 0
Board [9c 8s Qc 9h 4s]
Seat 2: MONEY1959 folded on the River
Seat 3: bertman019 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: hcal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: xxlurchxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: A REAL DEAL (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bendMEover (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: LorraineLove (big blind) collected (1275)

flop is 9C 8S QC check check.
The turn is a "9H" Kat checked to money who min bets it. Im thinking he just wants to see if a min bet takes it down here since he is only versus the big blind. Kat imo knows this and tries to take it done the pot with a re-raise, since money is showing weakness with his min bet. Kat is then representing a "9" that paired the board for trips. Kat also thinking if he is called on his re-raise, he still has the flush
draw. Money just calls the reraise to the river. to me, money is is drawing to something. Maybe has something like KJ or K10. ( he limped in pot utg)

River is the "4S" which really helps noone. Since the the river of 4S really helps nothing on the board, if Kat put him on some draw he knows money misse, if he thinks Money scared of the 9, then money would fold. Thus, thinking this, he pushes the rest of his chips in the pot and Money folds.

Nice play

[Kat]

To be honest Charles, I'm not at all sure this is a good play at all, but let me explain the back story.

First, I hope you're feeling better. But you being unwell is the reason all this happened. When I found out you wouldn't be playing I was furious! I'd had 3 hours sleep the last 48 and was only registered to defend my TLB lead. So to stay awake w/o the motivation of beating you I decided I'd try something. Which was to play some hands completely ignoring the cards I had. In other words, simply play against the hand held by my opponent. Those of you who got HU against me last nite might have noticed some ultra-aggro betting lines which are often necessary for this to work.

Aside: for you aggressive players: in a NLHE tourn look at your stats while you play. Your "pots won without showdown" will generally be far greater than the pots you win at showdown. What does this tell you? That you don't need cards to win pots in NLHE. It's why I rarely play NLHE I think this makes the game rather dull.

Ok, so to the play... MONEY limps from any position with a broad range. This makes him quite difficult to play in many ways cos it's hard to limit his range. And since I'm in the BB in this hand he can have no idea of what I'm holding in an unraised pot. Fun fun fun. Now that flop is super scarey for anyone who got a piece (e.g. Q) but has no draw. So a hand that hit that flop is gonna bet it unless it hits it so hard (e.g. JT) that a trap is in order. When the flop goes check-check I assume MONEY either has nothing (most hands miss the flop), a monster (but even w/ JT and no fl dr I think he'd bet), or a draw.

I've noticed that HU if you check to MONEY twice he bets about 80% of the time. Not a bad idea. So I decide to try a check-raise on the turn. It's true I've picked up a tiny flush draw but on a paired turn... you know... icky poo. So I check, as expected MONEY makes a small lead and I 3x it. It's a pretty good turn card to make the play because in the BB I could easily have a 9 which I would not have bet on the flop.

And MONEY calls! I am horrified! And he has me covered.

So the plan has gone completely wrong. And I am facing the river OOP against a player who will make some pretty thin calls.

Charles may have the right read on MONEY's hand. To be honest I had no read at all other than I felt he'd reraise the turn with a big hand and put me in there. I can give up here leaving myself a pretty short stack, but I like playing short--stack. Or I could shove and pray. So I flipped a coin, it came heads, I shoved.

Anyway... the main reason I posted to this was to get across the idea that playing your opponent's betting tendencies is often more powerful than betting your cards. They don't know wot you got.

[Yoda]

To be honest Charles, I'm not at all sure this is a good play at all, but let me explain the back story.

First, I hope you're feeling better. But you being unwell is the reason all this happened. When I found out you wouldn't be playing I was furious! I'd had 3 hours sleep the last 48 and was only registered to defend my TLB lead. So to stay awake w/o the motivation of beating you I decided I'd try something. Which was to play some hands completely ignoring the cards I had. In other words, simply play against the hand held by my opponent. Those of you who got HU against me last nite might have noticed some ultra-aggro betting lines which are often necessary for this to work.

Aside: for you aggressive players: in a NLHE tourn look at your stats while you play. Your "pots won without showdown" will generally be far greater than the pots you win at showdown. What does this tell you? That you don't need cards to win pots in NLHE. It's why I rarely play NLHE I think this makes the game rather dull.

Ok, so to the play... MONEY limps from any position with a broad range. This makes him quite difficult to play in many ways cos it's hard to limit his range. And since I'm in the BB in this hand he can have no idea of what I'm holding in an unraised pot. Fun fun fun. Now that flop is super scarey for anyone who got a piece (e.g. Q) but has no draw. So a hand that hit that flop is gonna bet it unless it hits it so hard (e.g. JT) that a trap is in order. When the flop goes check-check I assume MONEY either has nothing (most hands miss the flop), a monster (but even w/ JT and no fl dr I think he'd bet), or a draw.

I've noticed that HU if you check to MONEY twice he bets about 80% of the time. Not a bad idea. So I decide to try a check-raise on the turn. It's true I've picked up a tiny flush draw but on a paired turn... you know... icky poo. So I check, as expected MONEY makes a small lead and I 3x it. It's a pretty good turn card to make the play because in the BB I could easily have a 9 which I would not have bet on the flop.

And MONEY calls! I am horrified! And he has me covered.

So the plan has gone completely wrong. And I am facing the river OOP against a player who will make some pretty thin calls.

Charles may have the right read on MONEY's hand. To be honest I had no read at all other than I felt he'd reraise the turn with a big hand and put me in there. I can give up here leaving myself a pretty short stack, but I like playing short--stack. Or I could shove and pray. So I flipped a coin, it came heads, I shoved.

Anyway... the main reason I posted to this was to get across the idea that playing your opponent's betting tendencies is often more powerful than betting your cards. They don't know wot you got.
Works 2 ways, He may look at think about your image and know your not gonna be playing crap with all your chips. Still a gamble with him not to call. Kinda think if he had almost any part of this, he might call.Sorry I didnt make it. Decided I needed to lay down. Was 730 pm and didnt wake till 4am. Wish I could have made it a tighter challenge.

[Misty]

Kat...your play reminds me of someone, hmm ...who could it be?

Oh ya ...Money, Money. ;)

I'm betting Money had nothing more than a missed draw. Most likely 67.

[Kat]

Kat...your play reminds me of someone, hmm ...who could it be?

Oh ya ...Money, Money. ;)

I'm betting Money had nothing more than a missed draw. Most likely 67.

MONEY takes some good-natured heat on the radio sometimes for his play, but IMO when he has a stack his loose-aggressive style makes him very dangerous.

And, yeah I'd put 76 in his range there.

[Yoda]

[QUOTE=Kat;6559]MONEY takes some good-natured heat on the radio sometimes for his play, but IMO when he has a stack his loose-aggressive style makes him very dangerous.

And, yeah I'd put 76 in his range there.
The question is , what limit to you put his hands on? 72 83? ummm k5?
I give him a hard time, but heh ,it works for him, so who am i to say anything.

[Yoda]

Kat...your play reminds me of someone, hmm ...who could it be?

Oh ya ...Money, Money. ;)

I'm betting Money had nothing more than a missed draw. Most likely 67.

I can go with this because there is logic to Kats play here.