See ya around

[Melina 07]

Tonight was my last game
when it stops being fun i think its time to move on
To have to listen to players freak out on others every single time they are takin out
Not Much Fun
To get bitched at in yahoo over a hand
Not Much Fun
To be told Im a bad player
Not Much Fun
To have people insult me cause Im French or Canadian
Not Much Fun

and isint that why we play private games? for fun......

and ya know what kmcwa I can stick a Canadian flag on my jacket and travel anywhere in the world and be welcomed as a Canadian I dare you to try that with your flag :canada:

See ya
Colleen

[Raise, Ha!]

After thinking through what occurred last night, I'm also still unhappy about what transpired. I know that when there are 4 left , 2 big stacks and 2 small ones that the small stacks should be encouraged to fight it out to determine who will bubble. They know this also, therefore sandbag.

With the hand in question I had a reasonable pocket pair (10s) and bet them from the BB 3x (from 400 to 1200). Anyone who follows my play knows I've got something I'm proud of but you not only called the additional 200 to match the BB but then called my raise. When the flop came, it was all undercards and 2 diamonds, accordingly, I fired a large enough bet (3200) to deter any diamond chase and re-establish that I wasn't empty handed. Amazingly, you called this also. I'm thinkin "maybe she actually has kings or something" so I check turn as did you. River was a 10, non-diamond giving me a set so now I'm not going anywhere. you then bet out, so I go over the top all-in. Showdown reveals that you chased air the entire way, adding outs as you went and got Goddamn lucky on the river.

My objection to you was the dis-respect shown to me by being in the hand in the first place. I have a long and storied reputation for going in with the best hand and being the victim in the end. This example was no different except the circumstances were appalling.

I stand by my thoughts last night that this was the kind of amature play witnessed in any $4.40. That's a beginners course. Additionally, my opinion that the pre-flop and post flop calls were rediculous stand because they were. Play like this compels me to just say to hell with it and just go all-in whenever I think I'm ahead however,that also goes against the grain of the "fun" play expected in Private Games.

I don't want to see anyone leave the forum as a result of anything I've said, and if I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen but being the victim of a chase that should never have happened gets old and in this case likely cost me $50 or more. Finally, for the record, I never said you were a bad player but rather, that it was an awful play. Because I think you're a very good player I guess I expected more.

[Melina 07]

Duck i had 14k you had 10k other 2 guys in pot had 2k each i told you 3 hands in a row i wasnt interested in playing against you right now was more interested in the two short stacks but no you gotta play against me every chance you got and im my honest opinion really bad poker to have 2 big stacks play each other like that on bubble anyway i was bb and again hard headed you raised my BB just 2 or 3 times and i call with suited ace and flop the str8 draw and the flush draw ya bet out like 3.5k in that area i call then you check and get another chance to teach you to stop playing bad poker against another big stack hmmmm ya i like my odds Bye Bye ducky i hit and you pushed next time that will teach ya to work with other big stack to take out the small stacks you woulda got second and maybe first but no you think your the better player lol gl with that ya see i did chase but running hot like i was duhhhhhh i was gonna catch and dont give me anyone who knows me knows....... you really give yourself to much credit Mark you telling me to learn to play really do you really belive your a better player then me next time learn how to play you should have never raised my BB i dont care if ya had a great hand a truly good player can lay down a good hand at the right time

im leaving cause i was pestered so much over that hand i lost the game to a 2k stack from tilting and having to much things
on i didnt sign up to have someone yell at me and tell me in yahoo to piss me off to tilt me when i lose i shut up and leave no matter how i lost thats Class get some i think i said one thing once on the table and that was to kmcwa i regret it even though i cant stand the guy i was wrong yet you guys thinks its your right to go off on people

[boltman015]

is this what the forum is about,,,u lose a hand u disrespect the person who beat u and preceed to tell them the right way,,i meen your way to play poker,,if they choose to play a hand a certain way r they not allowed to or is this just another its our way or your wrong forum,,,this is second time this week a higher up person in forum has lost a hand and went off on other player for it,,i paid my entry imma play the game however the hell i want...thought this forum and the tournys was about having fun and making new friends,,,didnt relize needed to be hellmouth to play it as many of u think u r,,,,also it would seem the radio host and moderators would have a little more class then this,,,p.s maybe if u continue to bet turn she might have folded....u let her see free river card u have nodody to blame but yourself

[Kat]

This is sort of tangential to the argument but from a poker-theoretical point of view I'd be interested to see the hand history.

[Melina 07]

*********** # 160 **************
PokerStars Game #33172305763: Tournament #197271830, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2009/09/22 23:30:21 ET
Table '197271830 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: *MELINA 07* (13815 in chips)
Seat 4: Raise, Ha! (12640 in chips)
Seat 5: zeroman420 (4070 in chips)
Seat 9: Dirty Scott (975 in chips)
*MELINA 07*: posts the ante 25
Raise, Ha!: posts the ante 25
zeroman420: posts the ante 25
Dirty Scott: posts the ante 25
*MELINA 07*: posts small blind 200
Raise, Ha!: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to *MELINA 07* [Qd 9d]
CalifNaughti [observer] said, "ok whats yoyr addy?"
zeroman420: folds
Dirty Scott: folds
*MELINA 07* said, "isint that just proper play zero"
*MELINA 07*: calls 200
Raise, Ha! said, "then the teddy falls to the floor"
Raise, Ha!: raises 800 to 1200
*MELINA 07*: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [4d 8d 7s]
*MELINA 07*: checks
Raise, Ha!: bets 3200
*MELINA 07*: calls 3200
*** TURN *** [4d 8d 7s] [6c]
*MELINA 07*: checks
Raise, Ha!: checks
*** RIVER *** [4d 8d 7s 6c] [Th]
*MELINA 07*: bets 4800
Raise, Ha!: raises 3415 to 8215 and is all-in
*MELINA 07*: calls 3415
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Raise, Ha!: shows [Ts Tc] (three of a kind, Tens)
*MELINA 07*: shows [Qd 9d] (a straight, Six to Ten)
zeroman420 said, "gg"
*MELINA 07* collected 25330 from pot
Dirty Scott said, "gg"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 25330 | Rake 0
Board [4d 8d 7s 6c Th]
Seat 2: *MELINA 07* (small blind) showed [Qd 9d] and won (25330) with a straight, Six to Ten
Seat 4: Raise, Ha! (big blind) showed [Ts Tc] and lost with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 5: zeroman420 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Dirty Scott (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[midnightmmi]

I agree, I'll play my hand the way I want to, not how someone wants/expects how to play. If anyone doesn't like that, kick me out, but I'll still continue to play as I see fit, I totally agree with you boltman. NO ONE needs or should be told how to play their cards, no matter what cards they are, it's up to the player how to play them not anyone else.

[CaliNaughti]

I woild like to respond to the initial post. Perhaps the Hand History can go in a Hand History post? None the less

I am sorry to see you go Meli, you have been a good friend to me and a good poker player too, making up a great team of great women players here on our forum. Ive always had fun playing poker with you.

There are times in poker for ALL of us that poker may not be as fun as it once was, thats when we take a break. If you want to quit thats fine too just quit you dont really need to post that "im leaving".. You can just leave, leaves the door open to come back when things have cooled down in your head.

I have seen you go off on several people Meli at the tables. Most everyone here has seen you do this. How many times have I seen you or hear of you bitching someone out for theier play? Alot. Do they get upset..sure..they take breaks. Everyone here has been told in some way that they are bad players, when someone trie to help with thier bad play they get insulted. Is there a right way to approach this?

I am here to have fun too, not babysit you and all the fights that are caused. I dont like to hear anyone insult the USA, period. If you dont like it, then please, leave. No more insults.

I was not there to see first hand what happened, but if Boltman was disconnected..guess what? Calif does have a very high rate of discconetion. I cam from calif and can verify this and if they would have agreed. I get disconnected on a regular basis as does ref and all my family membrs spread out this state. You dont live here so you have no idea. Why in Gods green earth did you go after Texas? You dont live there either. Was this to provoke Dave and Patty? I think it was. You knew they would react the way tehy did.

I am really tired of having to deal with childish behaviors here. I deal with this type of behavior from the kids I take care of all day. They are not allowed to pick fights with each other and provoke one another. I put them in time outs. I have a life outside of this, I have family I talk to on a regular basis, and I would expect you all do too. If I cant respond to your post last night, sorry. I just wanted to make sure you got the game set up, played before you left. It was late. I was in no mood for your BS. or anyone elses.


If you arent having fun then by all means go, but maybe you just need a break. Either way you are always welcome back.

[Kat]

After thinking through what occurred last night, I'm also still unhappy about what transpired. I know that when there are 4 left , 2 big stacks and 2 small ones that the small stacks should be encouraged to fight it out to determine who will bubble. They know this also, therefore sandbag.

With the hand in question I had a reasonable pocket pair (10s) and bet them from the BB 3x (from 400 to 1200). Anyone who follows my play knows I've got something I'm proud of but you not only called the additional 200 to match the BB but then called my raise. When the flop came, it was all undercards and 2 diamonds, accordingly, I fired a large enough bet (3200) to deter any diamond chase and re-establish that I wasn't empty handed. Amazingly, you called this also. I'm thinkin "maybe she actually has kings or something" so I check turn as did you. River was a 10, non-diamond giving me a set so now I'm not going anywhere. you then bet out, so I go over the top all-in. Showdown reveals that you chased air the entire way, adding outs as you went and got Goddamn lucky on the river.

My objection to you was the dis-respect shown to me by being in the hand in the first place. I have a long and storied reputation for going in with the best hand and being the victim in the end. This example was no different except the circumstances were appalling.

I stand by my thoughts last night that this was the kind of amature play witnessed in any $4.40. That's a beginners course. Additionally, my opinion that the pre-flop and post flop calls were rediculous stand because they were. Play like this compels me to just say to hell with it and just go all-in whenever I think I'm ahead however,that also goes against the grain of the "fun" play expected in Private Games.

I don't want to see anyone leave the forum as a result of anything I've said, and if I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen but being the victim of a chase that should never have happened gets old and in this case likely cost me $50 or more. Finally, for the record, I never said you were a bad player but rather, that it was an awful play. Because I think you're a very good player I guess I expected more.

Oh dear...

I seem to remember when I joined the forum there was another thread in which Raise, Ha! had berated a player who subsequently left?

Anyway, given some time has passed since the hand in question I find it profoundly depressing that Raise, Ha! has chosen to throw out insults rather than apologies. I don't want to get too much into the details of the hand but to say Melina "chased air all the way" is clearly inaccurate. She flopped a flush draw. This is not air. I would've folded to the flop overbet in her place, but her call certainly isn't "ridiculous." Neither is the pre-flop call. And she can hardly chase air the entire way by making a single flop call, can she? The turn was checked through. There was no "chase" - she called the flop and made a hand on the end. It's catching lucky but it's not a chase.

Now...

My objection to you was the dis-respect shown to me by being in the hand in the first place. I have a long and storied reputation for going in with the best hand and being the victim in the end. This example was no different except the circumstances were appalling.

Are you serious? Disrespect? So, when a tight player enters a pot everyone should get out? This mode of thinking is not only silly, it's exactly why creative players want to get in hands with people who think like this. It's why a couple of weeks ago I defended my BB against you with nothing and when you made the inevitable continuation bet check-raised you all-in. You see if you think that you somehow deserve certain pots to be surrendered to you simply because you have patience pre-flop you're inviting people to play back. This bit about "long and storied reputation... VICTIM" Oh man. Victim. I guess psychologically this is the basis of the problem here. For reasons that I imagine are obvious, the better you play the more suck-outs you will receive. Get used to it. You're not being victimized.

Sir, someone made a loose flop call against you. You gave them a free card on the turn. On the end they bet out and you inexplicably shoved AI. In Melina's place do I play the hand the way she did? No. But the one clearly "amateur" play here is to shove the river.

So why am I chiming in here? I wasn't there. Not my argument.

Two reasons.

First, I agree with boltman. This sort of situation is regrettably common in HF games where self-proclaimed experts feel the need to berate plays made by others. Maybe it's because I've played over 5 million hands of poker since 2002, but to me whining about beats is not only boring it is the sign of someone who simply doesn't have the right mindset to be successful in poker.

Second, Melina has contributed a great deal to this forum through broadcasting, arranging the notorious side-bet, and contributing to threads. How about showing her some "respect?" Apart from anything else it does serious damage to this forum to drive out someone who has given their time to it AND is clearly one of the stronger players here.

Moderately pissed off - Kat

[A REAL DEAL]

:usa2::thumb::tea:Sorry i missed all the drama,:argue: but i resent, anyone ever downgrading the U.S.A and our flag, that has nothing to do with poker. I am proud to be an american and will defend my country to thee END :humble::yield: im sorry this crap started and hope this is the end of the childish bs, this is my opion and please respond your thoughts ANY1 please, if you diagree with me GOD BLESS AMERICA and the whole world , HoldFreaks is best site i have ever been a part of, and i will not tolerate trash talk about my beloved country

[kane2]

raise you shouldnt have even made it that far.. you cant complain about someone getting lucky against you when you yourself got lucky against me with your 5's against my K's

and melina.. maybe take a break from all this and collect your thoughts and hopefully there will be less drama when you get back

[Raise, Ha!]

Kat, I respect your opinion completely however, the part of the story you are not privy to was her comments in preceding hands first about my calling her in a pot she thought she deserved unchallenged followed by her statement that "i"m not interested in getting into pots with you yet" ONE HAND BEFORE!!!

I had a PP and 3x the BB. This is as standard as it gets in poker. she had air but called both the BB and the raise pre flop. I then bet 3200 post flop and she called with her 4 card flush. True she THEN had 11 outs and the check/check on the turn gave her more. My objection was the play pre and post flop only. Obviously the outcomes after the turn and river were my doing.

I maintain that if she was serious about letting the short stacks fight it out that the loose calls pre and post flop were just a fishing expedition and dis-respectful to the obvious fact that to that point she was dominated.

I'll refer back to my earlier statement. Am I to just push ever time I feel I'm ahead in a hand to prevent the chasers?

[CaliNaughti]

Id like to let everyone know that Meli isnt going to leave, but maybe take a break, she is a HUGE asset to HoldemFreaks as everyone knows. Lets all remember that we play here together because we like each other, and we shouldnt insult each other. We are here to play in private games because we like each other.I hope this puts a end to this.
Cali

[Kat]

I guess my fundamental point here is that "objecting" to the play of others isn't very helpful. I'll rip apart a line when analyzing a hand history, but I try (not always successfully) to separate criticism of the play from criticism of the player. I've taken some spectacular beats here. When I raise pre with AK and get called by A5 I am probably going bust on a A5x flop when I'm medium-deep. Did I tell A5 he was a donkey? No. I said "nh" then opened my notes and wrote "ca 3x cold A5o pre - destroy him."

Should you defend your hand by shoving every time? No of course not. The best hand doesn't always hold up. All you can ever do in poker is attempt to make the correct decisions.

[A REAL DEAL]

:usa2::canada::behindsofa: amen peace and see ya on the felt my Felters :kiss::amen:

[Holdem Freak]

While not having the chance to have been at the game I would however like to add some things. First any thought that the staff as a whole think they are above everyone else in these game is absolutely absurd. I will not have anyone put down for their play or anything for that fact. I reopened this place for people who are tired of all the other drama at other forums to have a fun place to go. I will be goddamned if people are going to make this place into one of those other forums. I do not pay to keep this site going put forth money for games(when I can) just to have this place be another forum people do not wanna be at. Everyone needs to sit back and take a moment to think about what they said or how they said it and reflect for a moment.

The last thing I want to say is something that was told to me some time ago when I got my panties all up in a bunch some time back over a hand, While we may all be friends here just remember there are no friends at the table. Poker is not about friends people, it is about winning and taking out threats to your success whenever possible.

[KMCWA]

I was going to post some choice comments on all this crap but I see that two others, Al and Sandy covered it pretty well. Thank you both. I will add this however. If it weren't for the USA carrying our flag to distant parts of the world, half the world would be speaking German and the other half Japanese. That being said I do regret the unkind remarks I made last night. I appologise First to Colleen personally and to the rest of you in general. It wasn't very grown up of me to act that way. I'm sorrry. Colleen I hope your deciding to leave isn't because of me. I may not find you the most agreeable person I have ever played with, but I certainly don't dislike you. That would be stupid. After all I have never even met you. I would hope you reconsider leaving and maybe just go on a little hiatus. I promise to all to do a better job of keeping my temper in check. My back does get up, particularly if my country and my state are denigrated.

[Misty]

You better all behave, cause I'll be back soon and I'm not gonna stand for any of this...
....(I'll most probably be sleeping on the keyboard instead)!!!!:crazy:


:focus: :car: :love:

[Melina 07]

No Acually i had a long talk with Cali where she so very nicly pointed out that im not leaving and thats final. lol I dont care for the Drama in fact first instinct was to run from it but instead I'll choose to let it go


Duck: cant ya just drop it like really?

kmcwa: you were first person with a wise commented after that hand after all that drama in yahoo i was pissed off from being attacked over a hand and for losing game to a small stack cause of all the bullshit and unfortunatly i knew how to push your buttons for that im sorry

[CaliNaughti]

I am closing this thread now. Im glad everything worked out.