Question on betting rule

[mmsdan]

This is a hand that I played and I know of the rule but just don't understand it.

Run of the mill NLHE
Blinds are 75/150. I'm UTG with JJ
Stack sizes
UTG (me) 2500
UTG+1 I have him covered. 2100+
MP1 597


UTG (me) raises to 450
UTG+1 flat calls the 450
MP1 is shorty 3bets all in with their last 597 chips
Table folds around back to UTG (me).

I'm prohibited from 4betting with my JJ to isolate the shorty and can only call the remaining 147 to MP1's all in.
UTG+1 now getting sick odds (around 13-1) to make the call for another 147 chips.

I've only been in this position a couple of times and just don't see the reason why the initial raiser (me in this case) can't get all my chips in the middle right then and there.

Does anyone have an explanation?
If MP1 had a stack to 3bet all in with say 1700, wouldn't UTG be able to 4bet all in?

FYI. this is not a bad beat story. The flop came all undercards and UTG+1 didn't want to play post flop. MP1 shoved with A4 off, flopped a 4 and turned a 4 to win with a set. it happens. But, my point is UTG+1 might have come along if I was able to 4bet preflop.

Mike

[Yoda]

This is a hand that I played and I know of the rule but just don't understand it.

Run of the mill NLHE
Blinds are 75/150. I'm UTG with JJ
Stack sizes
UTG (me) 2500
UTG+1 I have him covered. 2100+
MP1 597


UTG (me) raises to 450
UTG+1 flat calls the 450
MP1 is shorty 3bets all in with their last 597 chips
Table folds around back to UTG (me).

I'm prohibited from 4betting with my JJ to isolate the shorty and can only call the remaining 147 to MP1's all in.
UTG+1 now getting sick odds (around 13-1) to make the call for another 147 chips.

I've only been in this position a couple of times and just don't see the reason why the initial raiser (me in this case) can't get all my chips in the middle right then and there.

Does anyone have an explanation?
If MP1 had a stack to 3bet all in with say 1700, wouldn't UTG be able to 4bet all in?

FYI. this is not a bad beat story. The flop came all undercards and UTG+1 didn't want to play post flop. MP1 shoved with A4 off, flopped a 4 and turned a 4 to win with a set. it happens. But, my point is UTG+1 might have come along if I was able to 4bet preflop.

Mike

Yoda knows this one. the short stack cant make a legal raise which would have to be 300 more, which is a total of 700. Since he cant complete the raise, you are not able to reraise it again, only call.

your initial raise is 450..which actually is a raise of 300 more then bb.This he needs to at least raise 300 more to make a legal raise. Since he cant, then you dont get a chance to reraise again.

Hope it helps

[Adaon]

Yoda is correct, this rule is true of limit and No limit. It can be used to your advantage if one player has entered the hand, an all in behind is a raise but not enough to allow the first player to reraise, you can call a marginal hand knowing you will see the flop.

It's not the most common scenario but it does happen.

[mmsdan]

Thanks

So if MP1 had 3 more chips I would have been able to jam it right then and there?

I can see a scenario tho in how it can be used as an advantage. Especially if you're sitting to the immediate right of the raiser.

[Yoda]

he needed to raise 153 chips more to 750 for u to reraise. 750 being 300 more then th3 450 bet which was 300 more then the BB