Ok, I need your advice...for PLO8 I was in

[Misty]

Finished 14th outta 1094, but not happy...cus I know I messed up with this hand. I think now after looking at it carefully...I should have shoved. What do you think? Any suggestions would be appreciated, cus I keep messing up when I get close to final table and even tho I should be happy with my finish...I'm not. Cus I want to make one final table ....sighs.


PokerStars Game #40482635750: Tournament #244776259, $4.00+$0.40 USD Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level XXX (8000/16000) - 2010/02/28 20:09:56 ET
Table '244776259 16' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: gottago1221 (249614 in chips)
Seat 2: Mi§T¥ ߣuë (57844 in chips)
Seat 3: ramjet55 (201772 in chips)
Seat 6: 1HOOKED__UP_ (107588 in chips)
Seat 7: gerard95 (252080 in chips)
Seat 8: CastlePeak55 (193250 in chips)
Seat 9: roaminglion (247908 in chips)
CastlePeak55: posts small blind 8000
roaminglion: posts big blind 16000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mi§T¥ ߣuë [5h 4h 3s Ad]
gottago1221: folds
Mi§T¥ ߣuë: calls 16000
ramjet55: folds
1HOOKED__UP_: folds
gerard95: calls 16000
CastlePeak55: calls 8000
roaminglion: checks
*** FLOP *** [8h Qd 2s]
CastlePeak55: checks
roaminglion: checks
Mi§T¥ ߣuë: checks
gerard95: checks
*** TURN *** [8h Qd 2s] [Jh]
CastlePeak55: checks
roaminglion: checks
Mi§T¥ ߣuë: checks
gerard95: bets 64000
CastlePeak55: calls 64000
roaminglion: folds
Mi§T¥ ߣuë: calls 41844 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [8h Qd 2s Jh] [8c]
CastlePeak55: checks
gerard95: bets 172080 and is all-in
CastlePeak55: folds
Uncalled bet (172080) returned to gerard95
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gerard95: shows [3h 4d Ah 8s] (HI: three of a kind, Eights)
gerard95 collected 44312 from side pot
Mi§T¥ ߣuë: shows [5h 4h 3s Ad] (HI: a pair of Eights)
gerard95 collected 189532 from main pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 233844 Main pot 189532. Side pot 44312. | Rake 0
Board [8h Qd 2s Jh 8c]
Seat 1: gottago1221 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Mi§T¥ ߣuë showed [5h 4h 3s Ad] and lost with HI: a pair of Eights
Seat 3: ramjet55 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 1HOOKED__UP_ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: gerard95 (button) showed [3h 4d Ah 8s] and won (233844) with HI: three of a kind, Eights
Seat 8: CastlePeak55 (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 9: roaminglion (big blind) folded on the Turn




~~ pretty sure gerard would have still called with his hand, but would you suggest a different play?

[Barron40]

Hard to say and I am no guru on Omaha.

But even if you push he may have called with low draw as well.

Omaha to me is toughest as far as when to push and when to be conservative.

When I said patience, I just meant don't think you have to go in with any hand because you are getting low on chips. Wait til you feel good about the hand and then push. You may still lose but chances are you will win quite a few times. People sometimes say I let my chips get too low when playing but I know that if I get a good hand I am pushing and a couple of calllers gives me big reward. Does not always work out that way but does most of time.

[mmsdan]

Going to try and convert the hand

http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/feral_cow_icon.gifDont have a cow, heres your converted hand (http://www.feralcowpoker.com/converter.php?version=1.11)
PokerStars Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo ($4.00+$0.40) $8000/$16000 - 7 players

UTG: $249,614.00
UTG+1: $57,844.00 (Hero)
HJ: $201,772.00
CO: $107,588.00
Button: $252,080.00
SB: $193,250.00
BB: $247,908.00

Preflop: ($24,000.00) Hero is UTG+1 with http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/5h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/4h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/3s.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Ad.gif (7 players)
UTG folds, Hero calls $16000, 2 folds, Button calls $16000, SB calls $8000, BB checks

Flop: ($64,000.00) http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/8h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Qd.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/2s.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($64,000.00) http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Jh.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $64000, SB calls $64000, BB folds, Hero calls $41844 and is all-in

River: ($233,844.00) http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/8c.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Button bets $172080 and is all-in, SB folds

Hero showed http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/5h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/4h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/3s.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Ad.gif, and lost with HI: a pair of Eights
Button showed http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/3h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/4d.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Ah.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/8s.gif, and won (233844) with HI: three of a kind, Eights
Button won $233844
(Rake: $0)

[Misty]

thanks barron, yes patience is a great tip...I do find I have it, reason I reach as far as I do. I do go all in with good cards or raise well enough to make it +EV...it's just when I reach a certain level, I weaken my play and I do notice it...if I were to play like I do in the beginning and middle of the game, I'd be a winning player. sighs.

[Misty]

Going to try and convert the hand

http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/feral_cow_icon.gifDont have a cow, heres your converted hand (http://www.feralcowpoker.com/converter.php?version=1.11)
PokerStars Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo ($4.00+$0.40) $8000/$16000 - 7 players

UTG: $249,614.00
UTG+1: $57,844.00 (Hero)
HJ: $201,772.00
CO: $107,588.00
Button: $252,080.00
SB: $193,250.00
BB: $247,908.00

Preflop: ($24,000.00) Hero is UTG+1 with http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/5h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/4h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/3s.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Ad.gif (7 players)
UTG folds, Hero calls $16000, 2 folds, Button calls $16000, SB calls $8000, BB checks

Flop: ($64,000.00) http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/8h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Qd.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/2s.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($64,000.00) http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Jh.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $64000, SB calls $64000, BB folds, Hero calls $41844 and is all-in

River: ($233,844.00) http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/8c.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Button bets $172080 and is all-in, SB folds

Hero showed http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/5h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/4h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/3s.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Ad.gif, and lost with HI: a pair of Eights
Button showed http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/3h.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/4d.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/Ah.gif http://www.feralcowpoker.com/images/cards/ouch/8s.gif, and won (233844) with HI: three of a kind, Eights
Button won $233844
(Rake: $0)

Pretty cool, I didn't know they converted hands here too? ty Mike

[Raise, Ha!]

After the turn you were 40% to win the low (share actually) and really had nothing going for high except a weak flush draw of 9 outs. You never want to play for just the low in hi/low8 but at times you have to. Your hand was certainly good enough (you had an ace, you had str8 cards, you had flush cards) to call the 16,000 equaling the big blind and upon reveal of the flop, you still were in the hand so this is one of those times where you "had to". I'd have shoved post flop just to "try" to scare off loose calls. Giving villain the opportunity to be first into the pot post flop didn't help your cause. All in all, either way was ok, being the short stack sometimes you have to go for it. I've been there a few times.

[Yoda]

M to start the hand is a little over 2. Only move is to shove with best hand possible and pray. Guy still calls considering he has over 250k to start. Same results, but the right play is to push preflop.

[Kat]

M to start the hand is a little over 2. Only move is to shove with best hand possible and pray. Guy still calls considering he has over 250k to start. Same results, but the right play is to push preflop.

Calling pre is ok. M works completely different in PLO8 partly because it's pot-limit and partly because of the split pot nature of the game. The only hands that are a clear pre-flop shove are AAxx. In this particular set up, shoving pre accomplishes nothing because you have so little FE vs, the Great Wall of China in the BB.

And this is a long way from the "best hand possible."

[Kat]

ps: with the no-bust lock-low draw and backdoor wheel draw i'd shove the flop.

[Misty]

I agree with either shoving PRE or on the Flop. Altho...I (as Kat posted) also, don't usually shove PRE if I don't hold AAxx.

Mark was totally correct....shouldn't have called that TURN. I also agree and now I understand what Barron was trying to point out....I did indeed call the all-in (on the TURN) (for the wrong reason)...seeing as I was short stacked, figured that was my best shot at doubling up. Now I see (if I had more PATIENCE)..., by folding on the turn...I could have had a chance at another (better) hand, even if I was low on chips.


So I think, my biggest error here (as majority has posted & I fully agree)...was not shoving Post Flop.

Thanks for all the great feedback, everyone! :thumb:

[Bump]

bump bump bump

[Sushi Hound]

Hi Misty,

Bit late with this post, but wanted to put in my 2 cents. Omaha is my preferred game. AA is not an auto shove IMO as they are not near as strong as they are in Holdem. Going into the hand with under 3M, and with 30% of your equity in the pot preflop you had per se comitted to it. With these conditions shoving on the flop is likely the play to have made. Overall it was unlucky for you in not making the FT. I know you'll hit one soon.

Keep on Smiling,

Sushi

[jakor]

Hi!

I like push preflop. We are comitted with the hand, but on a multiway pot the equity downs a lot and we have some FE. The big blind had a great stack, but he can folds some hands, and the pot preflop its nice for us. A lot of people only raises AAxx and we can abuse of these playing agresive preflop and pot-betting 90% of flops because they think that we had a monster.

GL!